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Friday, 3 February 2012

Louis and Alexander Crommelin of Lisburn

I just wanted to clarify the relationship between the two members of the Crommelin family who moved from Holland to Lisburn at the end of the 17th century. For this post I used the excellent genealogy on the following website, and copious amounts of strong coffee - there were a lot of Crommelins....

http://www.crommelin.org/familytree/Genealogy.htm

Many of the published texts I’ve browsed maintain that Louis Crommelin, the founder of the linen industry at Lisburn, was the brother of Alexander who married Madeleine Lavalade, but, as can be seen from the following information, Alexander was the brother of Louis’ wife, Anne Crommelin.

Alexander Crommelin married Magdalen/Madeleine de Lavalade, sister of the Lisburn minister, Charles Lavalade.   They either married in Holland (most likely in Haarlem) or in Lisburn in about 1698.  Alexander was born December 7th 1670 in St.Quentin, northern France, and died on February 18th 1736/7 in Lisburn.
The Calendar of State Papers of October 21st 1696 record Alexander Crommelin travelling from London to Holland in the company of a servant named de Baye.


Alexander Crommelin's Will was published in 'Huguenot Wills and Administrations of England and Ireland 1617 - 1849':
'Alexander Crommelin, of Lisburn, wife Magdalen, daughter Matty, son Charles Crommelin, annuity for sisters-in-law, Anne, Martha, Catherine and Judith Levallade, to daughter Magdalen and her husband Rev. Francis Hutchinson 65/- and no more, nephew Paul Mangin £20. Executrixes wife and daughter. Dated 19 April 1735.  Probate 15th December 1737.'

(The children of Alexander Crommelin and Madeleine de Lavalade were  Madeleine Crommelin, born 1700 in Lisburn, died March 1778 in Dublin,  Charles Crommelin and  Martha Crommelin. Charles and Martha died shortly after birth according to the Crommelin genealogy site, but they were mentioned in their father's will nonetheless.)


Alexander's sister was Jeanne Crommelin who was born in 1667 in St. Quentin.  She married Louis Mangin (born Metz in 1665) in Haarlem in 1691, and she died in Lisburn leaving two children - Henriette Mangin and Paul Mangin who was mentioned in Alexander Crommelin's will of 1735.

Alexander and Jeanne were the children of Samuel Crommelin (1629 - 1693/4) and Madeleine Testart, both born in St.Quentin, and both died in Haarlem following their flight there in 1685. They had 23 children:  their daughter, Anne Crommelin, married the founder of the Lisburn linen industry, Louis (or Samuel Louis) Crommelin.  Anne was born in St. Quentin on 22nd February 1658/9, married Louis Crommelin there on 22nd April 1680, and died in Lisburn on August 15th 1755.

The father of Anne, Jeanne, and their brother, Alexander, was, as already mentioned, Samuel Crommelin of St.Quentin.  Samuel’s parents were Pierre Crommelin (1596 - 1677/8) and Marie des Ormeaux (1601 - 1650),  who both lived their entire lives at St. Quentin.  
This is where the family link between Alexander and Louis Crommelin of Lisburn begins - Pierre Crommelin of St. Quentin was the brother of Jean Crommelin.  This Jean Crommelin had a son, Louis (1625 - 1669) who married Marie Mettayer (circa 1632 - circa 1655) - their son was the founder of the Lisburn linen industry, Louis Crommelin, who married Alexander’s sister, Anne Crommelin in St. Quentin in 1680.

This is the will of Ann Crommelin, the widow of Louis Crommelin and sister of Alexander Crommelin:
'Ann Crommelin, of Lisburn, Co. Antrim, widow. My three grandchildren, Lewis Cromelin de Berniere, Mary Anne de Berniere, and Mandeline de Berniere, otherwise Dunlevy.  First two executors, he of Dublin, she of Lisburn.  Dated 22nd October 1744,  Probate 4 March 1756.'

Louis’s sister, another Anne Crommelin, the daughter of Louis Crommelin and Marie Mettayer, married her second husband, Daniel de la Cherois, in about 1699 in London. (Her first husband had been Isaac Cousin Van Meaux who she had married in Temple de Charenton in 1674).   Daniel de la Cherois served alongside Louis de Gorron de Thenie in Cambon’s regiment - Thenie was married to a Susanne de la Vallade, but I’m unsure as yet if she was a close relative of the Lisburn minister, Charles Lavalade.
There is a little confusion to contend with, however.  I've also found a reference to Marie-Angelique Crommelin, the daughter of Abraham Crommelin of St. Quentin and Marie Boileau of Paris, who married Daniel de la Cherois in the French Church in Swallow Street, London, in 1699.  The witnesses were the merchants, Louis Crommelin and Jean Notisset.
Their daughter was Marie Angelique de la Cherois who was born in Lisburn in 1700 and who married Daniel Philip Grueber of Faversham. They married in Lisburn.  Mr. Grueber died young, and Marie Angelique married, secondly, Thomas Montgomery.  Following his death, she divided her time between Mount Alexander near Comber, and Donaghadee.
Her father, Daniel de la Cherois, is often noted as the governor of Pondicherry in the East Indies, but it is believed that he lived mostly in Lisburn and merely invested in ventures in Pondicherry, earning an impressive £20,000 there.
A second sister of Louis Crommelin, Marie Madeleine Crommelin, married Nicholas de la Cherois, the brother of Daniel de la Cherois. (Although, just to muddy the waters a little, I recently found reference to the marriage of Daniel de la Cherois and Marie Angelique Crommelin in the French Church, Swallow Street, London, in 1699.  The witnesses were the merchants, Louis Crommelin and Jean Notisset. Apparently Marie Angelique was the daughter of Abraham Crommelin of St. Quentin and Marie Boileau of Paris. I'm confused....a daughter, Marie Angelique de la Cherois, was born to Daniel and Marie Angelique in Lisburn in 1700.)

The Calendar of State Papers for September 15th 1695 show that passes were granted to Samuel Lewis Crommelin and his sister, Mary Magdalen de la Cherroy (sic) to travel from London to Holland.   I think this Samuel Louis is actually Louis Crommelin, founder of the Lisburn linen industry.

'Nicholas de la Cherois, major in my Lord Lifford's regiment, living in Lisburn blessing to my wife and three children, Lisburn poor £5,  De Valeda, Minister £5, wife Maria Madeleine, children Maria Madeleine, Nicholas and Samuel.  Executors brother David and brother-in-law Lewis Crommelin.  Dated 12 June 1702.  Probate July 1702.'

The Register of the French Church in Soho records the baptism of Marie Madeleine de la Cherois on 25th February 1694.  Her father was 'Sr. Nicolas, premier Capitaine au Régiment de Marton' and her mother was Dame Madeleine Crommelin.   The godfather was Samuel Mettayer, one of the ministers at Soho;  the godmother was Judith de la Cherois.

3 comments:

  1. Thank you for your immense research and knowledge. Elsewhere I have understood that my forebear Paul Mangin married a Crommelin in Lisburn but I have also seen this disputed.

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  2. Dear Alison Stewart, searching the genealogy of the Mangin-family I found your article in the Internet. You'really right in the clarification the family-relationship which I also once tried to communicate. (Marie) Anne, Alexandre and Jeanne Crommelin were sisters of my ancestor Henry Samuel Crommelin (*1660). I'm interested in the Marin-genealogy. This family descended from Metz and went via Berlin to Ireland. But there must have been a family-tree which stayed at Metz, cf. the ancestors of the French general Charles Mangin from the first world war. I have no idea! Also I have copies of five letters by the elderly Louis Crommelin from 1663-1665, cousin of my ancastor and father in law of Annew Crommelin. Yours sincerely Bernard van Wickevoort Crommelin (from Germany)

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    1. To Bernard van Wickevoort Crommelin.
      I have been researching my wife Janice's Mangin family ancestry history for some time and I have a good deal of information including links to their family pedigree chart and intermarriage with the Crommelins. One of your family, Minard Crommelin (d 1972) came to Australia where I now live. Please feel free to contact me - Patrick Hobbs email: pajah@bigpond.com

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